Supreme Court Ruling Affects eSellers

[springintoscooters]

https://www.10tv.com/article/supreme-court-rules-states-online-sales-tax-case

[Southern Jewel's Fab Finds]

Darn!
You beat me posting this!

Supreme Court rules states can require online retailers to collect sales tax
Read the article in full at this link:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-rules-states-can-require-online-retailers-collect-sales-n873416

The justices broke with 50 years' worth of legal rulings that barred the states from imposing sales taxes on most of the purchases their residents make from out-of-state retailers.
by Pete Williams / Jun.21.2018 / 10:22 AM ET / Updated 11:24 AM ET

WASHINGTON — Online shopping will soon become more expensive, after the U.S. Supreme court ruled Thursday that states can require Internet retailers to collect sales taxes.

The 5-4 decision broke with 50 years' worth of legal rulings that barred the states from imposing sales taxes on most of the purchases their residents make from out-of-state retailers.

The decision was a victory for South Dakota, which asked the court to uphold its recently passed law imposing an Internet sales tax.

[uncleleroy]

I didn't see this when posting the entire WSJ article in the Amazon forum. That thread can be deleted by an admin since there is no need for a duplicate thread on the issue.

This taxation is stupid but expected. For all the analysts on CNBC bragging about the upcoming revival of brick-and-mortar stores, I don't see it. The online migration has been in full force and will continue to increase. I'm not going to go to some brick-and-mortar store to save 30 or 50 cents and spend hours looking for everything I need in multiple stores. I'm going to spend 10-15 minutes online and have it in my possession within 2-3 days.

[WayOutWest]

And that's exactly it.  You dont buy online to save a few pennies on sales tax.  Sure, you may do it on large purchases, but. . .  People buy online because of convenience, selection, and pre-tax price.

I often buy my toilet paper online. Why? Because it's under 70cents a roll delivered to my door Vs. $1 a roll at local store ($1.09 per roll w/ sales tax). So even ignoring the sales tax it's cheaper to buy it online.  Anther example, before taxes are added, the diesel additive I buy for the truck can be gotten locally for about $120 a case, or I can get it shipped to house for $100. Hmm. Which to choose?

I also buy hardware online. Why? Better selection. For example, one time I needed some bolts in a particular size. I tried buying locally but nobody had them. Amazon did. The next time I needed some odd sized screws, where do you think I looked first?

And, being able to shop at 3am, or when I simply don't feel like getting ready and driving to town, is huge.

As for the ruling, frankly I'm shocked. SCOTUS just opened the door to states having jurisdiction over people who live and work in other states and never set foot in their state. Mark my words, what'll happen next is states will use this ruling as a means to start requiring out of state vendors to file state income tax.

[Southern Jewel's Fab Finds]

Here's one of my reasons for shopping online:
Free Delivery of Large of Heavy Items.

It's brought straight to my door and I sign for it.
Voila.

Revival of Brick and Mortar Stores?
Hmmmm...I believe what is coming our way after the Retailocalypse ends (yes, retail brick and mortar stores are in an apacalyptic state) will be the strong and those that worked hard to bring forward an ecommerce presence.
There is a Retail brick and mortar Ice Age that has been coming and is going to get worse.

Those that survive did their due diligence and prepared.

Buyers are used to shopping online.
Buyers love the convenience of shopping online, open 24/7 and there are sites that review products.
Buyers LOVE that they can shop online and not have to walk into a store to purchase and save their time for other more important things.

Example:
My son purchased a set of books recently from Amazon (for one of his college classes).
The books were the same price in our local Books A Million.
With a full time job, two children, a wife and life...You can bet your sweet bippy he ordered it online and it came in 2 days.

Did he mind paying tax?
Nope.
Do I mind paying tax when I order online?
Nope.
Does my disabled daughter who does the majority of her shopping online mind paying taxes?
Nope.

That's my two cents.

[uncleleroy]

Many people do not think about one of the major causes of the retail brick and mortar apocalypse: There are too many stores. At one time, we had 5-6 times more stores per capital than in Europe. Maintaining that type of asset and infrastructure protection is expensive. The landscape for retail brick and mortar is not going to get better for a long time. Many companies are still trying to expand whereas others are trying to downsize. Until a good equilibrium is found, you will continue to see retail in the news.

At our local mall area, there are so many empty storefronts. Inside the mall is even worse. Sears is empty, Dillard's is empty, the food court only has like 4 or 5 stores. There are only two restaurants where you can gain entry directly from outside as well as inside the mall. An empty Walmart across the street from the mall as well as two mainly empty shopping strips, an empty Toys R Bust store, 5 or 6 vacant restaurants surrounding the mall, and I could go on and on. That's just the mall area. The city north of us on Lake Erie is about 10 times worse since the steel mill and ship yard shuttered. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of empty commercial buildings, churches, homes that should be condemned but aren't, etc.

Too many stores in any area will eventually make for a lot of empty storefronts, especially when your stupid mayor and city officials allow companies to suck up empty lots and build instead of steering them toward revitalizing existing commercial buildings that have been vacant for years (and in some cases, well over a decade).

[Southern Jewel's Fab Finds]

allow companies to suck up empty lots and build instead of steering them toward revitalizing existing commercial buildings that have been vacant for years (and in some cases, well over a decade).

I hear ya!
There is a huge retail apocalypse that isn't being discussed.
The jobs that are lost.
I feel for them.
With our local Sears closing down, there was a news reporter interviewing employees and some of them had been there since the 80's.
Can you imagine?
I can't.

You're right, there were too many stores being built.
Time to get with the times and move forward.
My children would rather save their time by buying online, having it delivered and enjoying their time doing other things.

I watched a documentary last year or the year before (and also a 60 minutes segment) that many cities are turning their malls into apartments.
And it's working!
Excellent article

The individual stores are being turned into apartments/condo's on their 2nd and 3rd floors.
Security won't be an issue and easily taken care of.
The dead food court, will be filled with what people are looking to eat.
Quirky, local, organic, healthy, fresh foods.
Similar to this place I enjoy in nearby Tampa. Armature Works
Along with a lounge or two/coffee bars/craft beer.
Using the larger stores for grocery stores.
USPS/Fed Ex/USPS stores will be available.

The one that's being discussed in Tampa will have a gym with swimming pool added. Exercise running tracks in the lesser busy areas of the bottom floor.
I'd consider it as a soon to be retiring adult and it would be a great solution for my disabled daughter.

I did see that an old mall in TN was turned into a medical facility.
Smart move.
It had different offices for doctors, testing, walk in clinic etc all under one roof.

Our oldest mall in town was turned into one of those mega churches.

There are uses, people just have to accept moving forward instead of backward...so the property isn't going to waste.

[uncleleroy]

It is my guess that you see empty buildings being re-purposed in areas that have some scarcity in land. We do not have the same level of scarcity as some other city have. Which makes our blight that much more horrendous.

[Southern Jewel's Fab Finds]

I see what you're saying.

Do you have forward thinking elected officials that would move forward?

I believe that it's possible because it happened in my town.
Repurpose and reuse.

Our downtown area in the 80's was in such bad shape.
The burbs were where people were moving and left downtown in the dust.
The homeless were hopping of the nearby train station in the winter.
Shops had closed.
Buildings boarded up.
Nobody went downtown.

Luckily, we had a vision 'reborn.'
And when I say we (tooting my own horn) I mean it.
I served on a board to open a children's museum downtown in an abandoned group of shops.
Two of the larger shopping buildings (JC Penney and Maas Bros)was purchased and repurposed into offices.
One houses Publix IT department and the other houses another business.
Shortly thereafter, Merrill Lynch repurposed one of the older buildings into their main office in Lakeland.
The children's museum I helped establish back in the mid 80's is now in the old repurposed Kress Store and is amazing!

There was the purchase of the oldest hotel in Lakeland by a big money family and was turned into a fine dining restaurant, The Terrace Hotel.
(my classically trained chef/son worked there)

Hipsters opened 'kewl' restaurants.
Every Saturday morning there's a market downtown.
The streets are closed off and it's so much fun.
Organic vegetables, owner made items, repurposed furniture, performances by varied groups, small food trucks, etc.

First Friday was started as a celebration to begin every month with open shops and restaurants.
https://visitcentralflorida.org/events/lakeland-first-friday
Second Thursdays are Food Truck Rallies.

Coffee Shops are plentiful.

Lake Morton in downtown Lakeland now has a botanical garden that brings in loads of photographers, weddings and more
It's a botanical garden featuring neoclassical architecture, fountains & a variety of plants.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34373-d519928-Reviews-Hollis_Garden-Lakeland_Florida.html

The symphony has concerts in the downtown park.
Bring your blanket, chairs, wine and have a great time.
Munn Park is decorated during the holidays and it's been a fun tradition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW3nMo17PDY

SNOWFEST for FL kids!
http://www.theledger.com/news/20161203/snowfest-2016-gives-lakeland-residents-white-christmas-for-day

The Federal Building was renovated into another restaurant.
All kept the integrity of the original buildings.
Downtown Lakeland FL

I'm really proud of what our city has done with it's properties not only in downtown but further out.
Like the use of the older abandoned mall turned into one of those mega churches.
I'm not a fan of mega churches but if it kept the old mall from being sitting unused and brings people into the area, then I'm all for it.

Alot has to do with having officials and business owners that are willing to apply for matching grants and to be forward thinking.
If you don't have those types of officials, then GOTV and elect ones that do.

Cities that are moving forward with the above idea's find that businesses are more apt to consider moving there, which brings in more jobs, which in turn brings in more people.
The circle.

I guess you can tell I like my hometown.
<smile>
Close to everything but far enough away.

[uncleleroy]

Our city leaders are more worried about getting the new football stadium ready for the first home game. Since my parents live about a mile down the road from the stadium, every time I go visit them something else has been done. And a little re-purposing was done but it had no involvement from the mayor or city council. All they care about is how many new things they can blow a bunch of money on. But the city pension is not fully funded and the only re-purposing of buildings occurred at the mall by a company that sells power sports equipment such as Can-am, Sea-Doo, Ski-Doo, Kawasaki, Arctic Cat,  motorcycles, ATVs, personal watercraft, side by sides, Spyders, dirt bikes and snowmobiles. The opening will be very soon and it takes up the entire old Macy's building at the Mall. That is the first new business going into the mall area in years and years. Almost as many closed restaurants as there are ones still operating.

Our city leaders just don't get it. Just because this is a poorer area than other neighborhoods doesn't mean we have to settle for a bunch of old dilapidated buildings and structures.

[Southern Jewel's Fab Finds]

I hear ya.
This ----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs

Quoting:
It's the politicians and city council members who have the ability to say "no" to sports owners, and that's who Oliver should have directed his speech toward. Or rather, to the citizens who repeatedly say yes to voting such politicians into office.

Oliver closed his speech saying, "The next time a team comes around asking for a new stadium, I want you to make them pay." Rather than sticking it to sports teams, though, the public should instead make the politicians who enable them pay, with their jobs or by demanding constitutional amendments prohibiting such unscrupulous policies.

[WayOutWest]

New Hampshire is preparing to fight the supreme court decision. 

From the article, ". . . Scully and Edwards are relying on a host of state and federal constitutional provisions, starting with New Hampshire’s Bill of Rights. Article 12 protects New Hampshire residents from having property taken without their consent, and says that no residents are “controllable by any other laws than those to which they, or their representative body, have given their consent.”

Article 7, meanwhile, makes that more clear: “The people of this State have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent State.”

Then there’s the U.S. Constitution, whose Interstate Commerce Clause and Privileges and Immunities Clause bolster their argument, they say.

And the lawmakers have a separate argument, one they think could flip the issue on its head. Their legislation would emphasize that when out-of-staters buy from sellers whose physical presence lies in the Granite State, any time a buyer goes online they are effectively traveling – virtually – to New Hampshire. Through that lens, all transactions from with New Hampshire businesses are exempt from sales taxes, as if the buyers had driven across the border themselves."

Full article at: https://www.concordmonitor.com/Capital-Beat-Wanted-A-Plan-B-for-online-sales-tax-legislation-19519059

[Southern Jewel's Fab Finds]

This is a big deal.

[uncleleroy]

I am liking this. I wonder how long this can stave off implementation and collection of other states' sales taxes?